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A suggestion on Gray Jedi.
#1
Hello to all new and existing players. What follows will be a suggestion that some might find offensive, you might not disagree at all, you might feel that this is potentially infringing on your gameplay. However, you might feel that this is a good idea, something you want to see and enjoy. Both opinions are as valid as each other, and any attempt to flame or derail the discussion will result in me asking the Staff team to remove unwanted and unconstructive comments.
 
Some of you might be thinking “Who the hell is this guy?”. Well, allow me to write a brief introduction. Voxxy’s the name, some of you might know me, might have heard or me, others might not. I’ve been around on the variations of Flurry code for a pretty long time. I’ve seen many different directions that the server has taken. I am not an Admin, nor am I in any way affiliated with the Admin team. This is my personal opinion, supported by comments I’ve heard long before my absence, and indeed afterwards aswell.
 
What is my suggestion?

Well, in essence it is simple. Remove the ability for Gray Jedi to PvP.

In every(*that I have seen) advertisement for the server, and multiple occasions on Discord, Gray Jedi has been described as a “PvE” profession. In fact, it is the ultimate PvE profession. It is able to comfortably solo almost any encounter, possibly every encounter with enough time and patience. It is an absolute killing machine, I would be willing to wager that almost every player who has set up residence on this server has their own. (I don’t know official figures, sorry.) Want to farm credits? Have your Gray spin lairs for a while. Want some awesome loot? Grind up gray rank until the boss is comfortable for you.

As a matter of fact, every single bonus stat, skill or defense stat is awarded to you solely by PvE gameplay. Now, one could argue that, when you are full template (regular profession. Let’s choose Master Rifles/Doc), you also do not gain anything from PvP except faction ranking, personal PvP ranking, and a neat little trophy. You would be absolutely correct, however, whilst you might be efficient at sniping heads with your Jawa rifle, you do not possess the ability to comfortably solo all current PvE content that the server offers. MAYBE if you use 200 stims and get super buffed with states. But if that NPC has a lightsaber, think again.
 
Currently there are 2 professions that actively benefit from PvP content. That is FRS Jedi (In FRS XP, which they can use to advance the ranks and gain new stats via those skill boxes) and Bounty Hunter, who have a monetary incentive to actively PvP. While BH might not get an actual “bonus”, credits buy new things, things to help BH more efficiently, and so forth.

To me, personally, it is not logical to throw in an almost unstoppable force into that mix.
 
Gray Jedi are by definition here on Flurry, neutral. They abide by neither Light nor Dark codes. So why does it make sense for a Gray to suddenly decide that he favours the Imperials and be able to fight for them? To me, it doesn’t.
 
But Voxxy, my friends PvP and I want to join them on my Gray Jedi! You’re taking away my ability to play the game!

Wanting to play all aspects of the game, whether its solo, or with friends is a great thing to do. And there is fantastic news. If this restriction was to come into effect, you would still be able to PvP with your friends on your Jedi! But, you would have to unlock it (Which has been heavily reduced), do the trials, choose your template and pick a side. You would have to risk to gain reward, instead of being allowed to steamroll your way through players with 0 risk and maximum reward.
 
Allow me to put this into a Scenario for you, not to belittle or sound condescending, but to bring transparency and highlight the issue.

Geoff (Grand Master) and David (Dark Jedi Knight) are roaming around Tatooine. They spot 2 other players! There’s Butters (Light Jedi Knight) and the fearsome Rolf (Light Jedi Sentinel)!

A quick flash of lightsabers, and David is battling Butters whilst Rolf is trying his luck against Geoff.

Geoff has 2x the force pool of Rolf, the defensive and offensive stats of all 5 masteries, plus the innate defenses gained from PvE content grinding Gray “FRS”.

Rolf wasn’t very smart, he chose LS Master and Master Enhance. He’s fast and tanky to an extent, but has no innate defenses from the Defender tree. He figures that if it comes down to it, he can simply FR3 away and recuperate. Nope. If he was to do that, Geoff would also be able to use FR3 and catch up to him wherever he decided to go.

After 5 minutes of fearsome fighting, Geoff wears down Rolf’s force through attacks, and even manages to knock him unconscious!

Over runs David, quick as a flash, and Deathblows Rolf. Rolf loses FRS XP, David gains, despite contributing 0 to the fight.

The remaining 2v1 fight ends abruptly, despite being on an even playing field before the introduction of Geoff the Grand Master. Who’s currently at 2/3 force. (Still higher than the MAX of an FRS Jedi). David once again deathblows his opponent and gains.


Now, change this up a bit. If Geoff is a Jedi Knight like David, it’s an even playing field. Slightly in favour of Rolf because he has earned extra stats through PvPing and ranking up. Both sides are risking, both are hoping for rewards.

Now we turn both Butters and Rolf into Gray Jedi. (Not GM). After a long winded battle, David is knocked and DB’d. Despite him losing to a Jedi of the “opposite faction”, he loses no FRS XP.

It simply does not make sense, to me at least, to continue to allow gray Jedi to PvP.

Now take away all aspects of FRS for a second. Imagine a player. A Fencer, who on his WS has just crafted a legendary Stunner, the stars aligned, everything went perfect. He’s eager to test it, he’s eager to enjoy his luck in a pvp environment. He comes across an opposite faction player, it’s easy, it’s no problem. The guy didn’t have stun armor, he didn’t see it coming. Oh damn, the next guy does have stun armor! This is a tough fight, but ultimately due to experience and “skill”, the fencer comes out victorious. He’s 2 for 2. In shuttles Geoff the Grand Master. Overt and ready to avenge his friends.

Even with LS armour, the Fencer, who through the new system had obtained a weapon of legendary status, is swept aside almost without effort by a player who farmed up a couple of pearls and through the aspect and abilities of his profession, is afforded almost every offensive and defensive bonus with very minimal effort.

My final example will be of something that I witnessed. A BH pulled a mission, got himself ready, tracked and followed his target and engaged. Only for his opponent to seemingly take very little damage, and sporting a Grand Master title. The BH was quickly disposed of. Next to no chance at success, no reward, no level playing field.

One could argue that a Jedi with lesser defensive/offensive/reactive abilities might have had a more difficult time and that the BH might have actually had a chance at completing the mission he just spent 30 minutes tracking and following.
 
I feel like this change would put the fate of the GCW back into the hands of those who have opted to choose a side and actually risk something, rather than a souped up Alpha profession who can literally steamroll anyone that isn’t an opposing Grand Master.
 
For those of you who will say “But Voxxy, I’ve seen you PvP on your GM also!!!”. Yes, this is true. For exactly the reasons I have outlined above. Why should I risk my FRS character attempting an uphill battle that I have very little chance of succeeding? I would gladly retire my GM to only PvE content for the chance to be able to PvP on an even field with my FRS, or even my BH.
 
I have more to say, but for now I feel like this will suffice. I welcome constructive discussion whether you are against or for this change. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being belittled, as everyone opts to play and spend their free time here. As I mentioned above, if you flame or attempt to belittle anyone for what they have to say, I will ask that the Staff remove those comments and warn those who continue to flout it.
 
To those that have read through this entire thing, thank you for taking the time to listen to one persons opinion.
 
Respectfully,
Voxxy.
 
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#2
(07-14-2020, 07:59 PM)Voxxy Wrote: Hello to all new and existing players. What follows will be a suggestion that some might find offensive, you might not disagree at all, you might feel that this is potentially infringing on your gameplay. However, you might feel that this is a good idea, something you want to see and enjoy. Both opinions are as valid as each other, and any attempt to flame or derail the discussion will result in me asking the Staff team to remove unwanted and unconstructive comments.
 
Some of you might be thinking “Who the hell is this guy?”. Well, allow me to write a brief introduction. Voxxy’s the name, some of you might know me, might have heard or me, others might not. I’ve been around on the variations of Flurry code for a pretty long time. I’ve seen many different directions that the server has taken. I am not an Admin, nor am I in any way affiliated with the Admin team. This is my personal opinion, supported by comments I’ve heard long before my absence, and indeed afterwards aswell.
 
What is my suggestion?

Well, in essence it is simple. Remove the ability for Gray Jedi to PvP.

In every(*that I have seen) advertisement for the server, and multiple occasions on Discord, Gray Jedi has been described as a “PvE” profession. In fact, it is the ultimate PvE profession. It is able to comfortably solo almost any encounter, possibly every encounter with enough time and patience. It is an absolute killing machine, I would be willing to wager that almost every player who has set up residence on this server has their own. (I don’t know official figures, sorry.) Want to farm credits? Have your Gray spin lairs for a while. Want some awesome loot? Grind up gray rank until the boss is comfortable for you.

As a matter of fact, every single bonus stat, skill or defense stat is awarded to you solely by PvE gameplay. Now, one could argue that, when you are full template (regular profession. Let’s choose Master Rifles/Doc), you also do not gain anything from PvP except faction ranking, personal PvP ranking, and a neat little trophy. You would be absolutely correct, however, whilst you might be efficient at sniping heads with your Jawa rifle, you do not possess the ability to comfortably solo all current PvE content that the server offers. MAYBE if you use 200 stims and get super buffed with states. But if that NPC has a lightsaber, think again.
 
Currently there are 2 professions that actively benefit from PvP content. That is FRS Jedi (In FRS XP, which they can use to advance the ranks and gain new stats via those skill boxes) and Bounty Hunter, who have a monetary incentive to actively PvP. While BH might not get an actual “bonus”, credits buy new things, things to help BH more efficiently, and so forth.

To me, personally, it is not logical to throw in an almost unstoppable force into that mix.
 
Gray Jedi are by definition here on Flurry, neutral. They abide by neither Light nor Dark codes. So why does it make sense for a Gray to suddenly decide that he favours the Imperials and be able to fight for them? To me, it doesn’t.
 
But Voxxy, my friends PvP and I want to join them on my Gray Jedi! You’re taking away my ability to play the game!

Wanting to play all aspects of the game, whether its solo, or with friends is a great thing to do. And there is fantastic news. If this restriction was to come into effect, you would still be able to PvP with your friends on your Jedi! But, you would have to unlock it (Which has been heavily reduced), do the trials, choose your template and pick a side. You would have to risk to gain reward, instead of being allowed to steamroll your way through players with 0 risk and maximum reward.
 
Allow me to put this into a Scenario for you, not to belittle or sound condescending, but to bring transparency and highlight the issue.

Geoff (Grand Master) and David (Dark Jedi Knight) are roaming around Tatooine. They spot 2 other players! There’s Butters (Light Jedi Knight) and the fearsome Rolf (Light Jedi Sentinel)!

A quick flash of lightsabers, and David is battling Butters whilst Rolf is trying his luck against Geoff.

Geoff has 2x the force pool of Rolf, the defensive and offensive stats of all 5 masteries, plus the innate defenses gained from PvE content grinding Gray “FRS”.

Rolf wasn’t very smart, he chose LS Master and Master Enhance. He’s fast and tanky to an extent, but has no innate defenses from the Defender tree. He figures that if it comes down to it, he can simply FR3 away and recuperate. Nope. If he was to do that, Geoff would also be able to use FR3 and catch up to him wherever he decided to go.

After 5 minutes of fearsome fighting, Geoff wears down Rolf’s force through attacks, and even manages to knock him unconscious!

Over runs David, quick as a flash, and Deathblows Rolf. Rolf loses FRS XP, David gains, despite contributing 0 to the fight.

The remaining 2v1 fight ends abruptly, despite being on an even playing field before the introduction of Geoff the Grand Master. Who’s currently at 2/3 force. (Still higher than the MAX of an FRS Jedi). David once again deathblows his opponent and gains.


Now, change this up a bit. If Geoff is a Jedi Knight like David, it’s an even playing field. Slightly in favour of Rolf because he has earned extra stats through PvPing and ranking up. Both sides are risking, both are hoping for rewards.

Now we turn both Butters and Rolf into Gray Jedi. (Not GM). After a long winded battle, David is knocked and DB’d. Despite him losing to a Jedi of the “opposite faction”, he loses no FRS XP.

It simply does not make sense, to me at least, to continue to allow gray Jedi to PvP.

Now take away all aspects of FRS for a second. Imagine a player. A Fencer, who on his WS has just crafted a legendary Stunner, the stars aligned, everything went perfect. He’s eager to test it, he’s eager to enjoy his luck in a pvp environment. He comes across an opposite faction player, it’s easy, it’s no problem. The guy didn’t have stun armor, he didn’t see it coming. Oh damn, the next guy does have stun armor! This is a tough fight, but ultimately due to experience and “skill”, the fencer comes out victorious. He’s 2 for 2. In shuttles Geoff the Grand Master. Overt and ready to avenge his friends.

Even with LS armour, the Fencer, who through the new system had obtained a weapon of legendary status, is swept aside almost without effort by a player who farmed up a couple of pearls and through the aspect and abilities of his profession, is afforded almost every offensive and defensive bonus with very minimal effort.

My final example will be of something that I witnessed. A BH pulled a mission, got himself ready, tracked and followed his target and engaged. Only for his opponent to seemingly take very little damage, and sporting a Grand Master title. The BH was quickly disposed of. Next to no chance at success, no reward, no level playing field.

One could argue that a Jedi with lesser defensive/offensive/reactive abilities might have had a more difficult time and that the BH might have actually had a chance at completing the mission he just spent 30 minutes tracking and following.
 
I feel like this change would put the fate of the GCW back into the hands of those who have opted to choose a side and actually risk something, rather than a souped up Alpha profession who can literally steamroll anyone that isn’t an opposing Grand Master.
 
For those of you who will say “But Voxxy, I’ve seen you PvP on your GM also!!!”. Yes, this is true. For exactly the reasons I have outlined above. Why should I risk my FRS character attempting an uphill battle that I have very little chance of succeeding? I would gladly retire my GM to only PvE content for the chance to be able to PvP on an even field with my FRS, or even my BH.
 
I have more to say, but for now I feel like this will suffice. I welcome constructive discussion whether you are against or for this change. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being belittled, as everyone opts to play and spend their free time here. As I mentioned above, if you flame or attempt to belittle anyone for what they have to say, I will ask that the Staff remove those comments and warn those who continue to flout it.
 
To those that have read through this entire thing, thank you for taking the time to listen to one persons opinion.
 
Respectfully,
Voxxy.

Im not a PvPer and i do enjoy my Gray Jedi like any other profession. I do understand what you are saying and if the server wants to remove it then thats fine by me.
 
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#3
Hey I main my gray Jedi and I 100% agree with you bro if you wanna pvp do your knight trials and go nuts simple as that
 
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#4
Hey Voxxy

I wish I had something to add there but cannot say more than: I absolutely agree with you.

Kind regards,
Yuripa
 
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#5
I am completely against this entire thread.
 
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#6
(07-15-2020, 02:59 AM)Keyn Wrote: I am completely against this entire thread.

So what is your reasoning for being against it? other than being against it. Voxxy makes a lot of good points. If you disagree with something please be more specific other than i dont agree. Love to hear your side of it as well and understand your point of view.
 
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#7
(07-15-2020, 03:12 AM)Twan Wrote:
(07-15-2020, 02:59 AM)Keyn Wrote: I am completely against this entire thread.

So what is your reasoning for being against it? other than being against it. Voxxy makes a lot of good points. If you disagree with something please be more specific other than i dont agree. Love to hear your side of it as well and understand your point of view.

This is a PvE server. It's centered around grays. If you like to PvP that's fine. PvP your butt off, but don't complain about grays being too strong. They are supposed to be strong.
 
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#8
yes dude, I agree 100% havent had much pvp experience o flurry yet, but i have a grey and a regular jedi and i would rather not have to ever fight another grey on my reg.
 
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#9
Any chance you guys have tried to fight as a ranked FRS jedi yet. The advantage should go to them with the light/dark control and manipulation. All of this stuff can be tweaked if need be. But after polling some pvper's who have played both jedi's had said that for now they couldn't see a reason to tweak anything on the FRS sides.

Also another note, yes Grey Jedi is a PVE jedi, in a sense that its not forced to PVP, that was the hole reason in creation was to give players a chance to play a jedi without a bounty hunter or 3 humping their legs every time they're in the med center getting buffed. There are a few ways they can get involved, the normal faction related way. The /setpvp way, or the TEF way. The same basic concept as all the other professions that decide when and where they would like to PVP.

Is a Grey Jedi Strong, yes. Are they stronger than their FRS counterparts its hard to say we havent had a council member FRS jedi yet. Are they unkillable? No, you can take out a full template Grey Jedi if you know what you're doing. And well a bit of luck too. Solo would be a challenge but i know that in a duo situation for sure.


I am neutral in this because it would not effect my game play with them either way. I don't speak for toxic but I believe that because they can PVP atm, that he is for allowing Grey Jedi to PVP. And in this case we need alot more feedback so keep it coming.
Sygnum
SWGFlurry Co-Owner and Developer
https://github.com/sponsors/sygnum
 
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